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Big Mess

May 21st, 2009 | Bengals, NFL

I hate the news coming out of Paul Brown Stadium between QB Carson Palmer and WR Chad Ochocinco.  Chad is not attending off season workouts in Cincinnati.  Carson gets asked about Chad every time a microphone is shoved in front of his face.  Carson tried as long as he could to be politically correct about the situation, but he finally gave in.  I think he gave in because the team is out there practicing and the emotions of playing football again got the best of the Bengals QB.  Now I think the team really has a problem.  Having Chad gone is one thing, but to have the usually quiet, superstar QB speaking out against Chad is bad.  The Bengals will have to side with Carson on any fight with any player, so the next move is on Chad.  This is his chance to get out of town if he wants, because a public feud with the QB could end the season long before it starts.  Having two star players fighting in the media isn’t good for business.  That’s why I said this stuff had to settled months ago.

 

Update:  I’m getting some emails about this post.  I didn’t say Carson said anything wrong.  All he did was state the obvious.  But it will be played in the “national” media in a way that will be a Carson vs Chad fight.  So it will be another negative Bengals story in the national media.  Even though fans here in Cincinnati may feel like it is no big deal, fans all over the NFL will look at it as another “Bengals” problem.  That’s my point.

50 Responses to Big Mess

Sam S

May 21st, 2009 at 3:19 pm

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He didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. He said, “Chad isn’t here”, “there are people here that are playing his spot, and don’t want to give it up”. “I haven’t heard from Chad, and no one I know has either.”…..all of them are factual statements. Now, if he said “I think Chad is a selfish cry baby, who isn’t getting his way so he’s skipping OTA’s” then that’s inflammatory. Maybe now they will get rid of him. There are a ton of guys on the team that love Cincinnati and the opportunity to play with Carson, and for Marvin Lewis. I say good riddance if he doesn’t want to play for the Bengals. If he does want to play, put his money where his mouth is, or better yet….make your actions speak for you.

Bill

May 21st, 2009 at 3:35 pm

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JT, I was already concerned with how much of a distraction Chad would be when he had to join the team. If he now thinks that Carson has dissed him publicly, I think he could be a full-blown poison pill. You know Mike Brown better than we do. Could this finally force him to trade Chad? You have to think the Giants would love to have him, among others, but any team will use the bad situation here to try to get him on the cheap. I expect that no one will offer what Mike Brown wants in return, so he will force Chad to play, and Chad will go into thermo-nuclear meltdown and bring the team down with him.

T

May 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pm

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Yeah, this is no good. JT was so right about this one. This should have been resolved before the draft. I also think that most of the folks commenting on here were right because they could sense this was going to end badly and that management would do what they do best and just hope that a problem would go away without taking proactive measures. Talent-wise, this team is a lot worse without Ocho, which makes this such a shame. Carson and 85 should have been Manning and Harrison-esque for a long time.

maoglone

May 21st, 2009 at 3:57 pm

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…and you know HBO’s going to spin this whole thing into quite the little story for the “Hard Knocks” season, too.

I wonder how much tension there is behind the scenes here. I know you probably can’t get into specifics, JT, but man, I’d like to be a fly on the wall between those two every once in a while.

Patmo

May 21st, 2009 at 4:35 pm

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How many times have we seen Chad and Carson jawing on the sideline with the cameras on ‘em ? Chad will come back and Carson will say the right things but I sense that the two have permanently parted ways .

JT is a big fan of talent which in Chad’s case is understandable but I’m in favor of guys who want to be here and play without causing trouble .

Time for Chad to be traded for a quality CB and call it quits.

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 4:41 pm

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I think that it’s time to settle it and move on either way. Any progress this team has made during the off season will be at stake. Chad really controls things at this point. He can come in and force the teams hand if he wants. If he doesn’t then maybe he wants to be in Cincy

Brian

May 21st, 2009 at 4:48 pm

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I love the way Palmer has handled himself this off-season. He is saying all the right things and that includes calling out Chad. I agree that the National media will eat this up and play it as a “circus” type scenario but does it really matter? Carson is stepping into the spotlight with his vocal leadership and I think that is a great thing to see. The others will follow and the individuals that don’t will fade away.

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 4:58 pm

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Yes it does matter. Aren’t you tired of having Bengals conversations that aren’t about wins and losses? I am. I get asked about perceptions, mike brown, arrests, character all the time. This has been a good off season, now all Carson keeps getting asked about is his arm and Chad. Not good for business. And Chad won’t fade away. He is too good of a player and too big in that locker room. I hope it turns out well.

John

May 21st, 2009 at 5:09 pm

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I hate admitting it but there is only one way to end this, and that is to give Chad the contract he wants, something in the 4 year $38 Mill range. If they trade Chad people will bash them for not doing it earlier, if they cut him people will ask why they didn’t get anything for him. If they do nothing and stick it to him then they have drama right front and center for the video cameras this summer. I still believe most of this is about Chad feeling that is underpaid which makes him feel disrespected.

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 6:26 pm

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Thats a lotta dough :) wont happen but not doing anything and waiting it out may be dangerous to the teams success

Brian

May 21st, 2009 at 7:03 pm

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What ever happened to the Chad who used to sleep at the stadium? Now he is nowhere near the stadium.
The team really should move Chad. If they wait another year, he will be a year older, a year slower, and a year whinier. I love Chad for the good things he did for this team, but it is time to part ways. As soon as June comes around (from what I understand, the cap hit should be less by then) he should be on the block. Someone is going to get hurt on some team and Chad’s value in a trade should be at its highest in favor of the Bengals. Assuming the rest of the Bengal WRs stay healthy, the team should take the best available offer on Chad.

Doug

May 21st, 2009 at 7:20 pm

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I don’t care about Chad. If he makes a jerk of himself again, fine him for conduct detrimental to the team and if he keeps it up suspend him. I’m all for making an example of him after the junk he pulled last off season. Trade him only if you get value for him, but don’t cut him and get nothing. The season doesn’t rest on his whims.

Chad is a great talent, but I always thought that Chris Henry could be a replacement if he stepped up his game.

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 7:22 pm

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They are different kind of players. Both talents tho

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 7:25 pm

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June 1st doesnt matter anymore. The team has to be careful in not letting minicamps sway their decision on Chad. Just becasue a guy is working out well, or catching the ball well in shorts, they have to do it when it counts. They won’t let Chad go

Doug

May 21st, 2009 at 7:26 pm

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What bother me more is Andre Smith using Rick Smith. I totally think that was planned, drop your original agent, then pick Priority One Sports right before the draft to gain credibility, then drop him afterward and rehire your original agent. Wow. How about that, another athlete not to hold in esteem.

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 7:32 pm

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I spoke to Rick last week and he was pretty upset about it. Pacman Jones did the same thing back in 2005. Fired his guy right after the draft.

John

May 21st, 2009 at 8:10 pm

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JT I have a question, what is your opinion of players like Chad and Boldin who sign extensions with their teams then a year or so later want new deals?? I think the Bengals need to get rid of Chad but how can they do it without it blowing up in their faces?

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 8:16 pm

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cant fault anyone here. The bengals gave him a deal with four years left on his last deal? Can fault Chad for wanting it again, and cant fault bengals for not giving him more. But Chad hasnt even said anything so we dont know if it is money. Maybe he just want to train in Cali? :)

Matt

May 21st, 2009 at 8:41 pm

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JT-
didn’t you one time mention Keels was a pretty tough agent to deal with? I think what Smith did was pretty classless. Also how long is that hold out going to be? It seems more and more likely that this draft pick is going to blow up in our faces.

JT

May 21st, 2009 at 8:48 pm

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I never said that. Keels is new on the scene. I think he has a few clients. I’m hearing there will most likely be a holdout, and probably a lengthy one if they dont start working on it soon. But I did predict before the draft that the bengals would not be willing to give him a top salary, now with the new agent in there, it may get ugly. Especially since reports surfaced last week that the Bengals prefered to deal with Rick Smith.

Palmer: "I Really Don’t Know" About Chad | Stripe Hype | A Cincinnati Bengals Blog

May 21st, 2009 at 9:48 pm

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[...] The guy I once called “The Smartest Guy on Planet Bengal” weighs in, and is, as always, excellent. I’m not going to bother excerpting here, just go read the post [...]

mike

May 21st, 2009 at 9:57 pm

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pft is reporting greg ellis is on the block. anyone else get that image of ocho and jerry jones smiling in the big d from last season. also florio is saying the bengals are interested. im just saying……

Doug

May 21st, 2009 at 10:59 pm

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JT – As I recall, the Raiders QB Russell, didn’t get signed till half way through the season. Does the player have any risk in not signing before the season? Does the team lose rights to the player if the player isn’t signed by a certain point? Just curious.

Reginald

May 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 am

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Perhaps I’m the lone voice. I’m neutral on the situation (and not a big Chad fan…his jerseys are in the “back closet” with #84). Chad is working out trying to improve his game. Timing and reps in the new offense would be great to have, but so, too, would be a Chad who is bigger, stronger, and performing better than ’08. He will show up, he will play hard, and he will win the position.

In the end, what do we expect Carson to do/say? Should he be down on the guys who are there and tell the media “I can’t wait for Chad to show up!” He has to support them. I just don’t think this is that big a deal except the emotional drain that the press creates by always bombarding Carson and others with the same crap multiple times each time they sit with the players.

jason

May 22nd, 2009 at 6:59 am

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i understand what your saying JT but its about time someone said what they felt about chad missing these camps. is there any other players not in camp right now or is it only chad? as a fan and season ticket holder im tired of PC statements about chad johnson

dernst

May 22nd, 2009 at 7:04 am

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JT, you said:
“Aren’t you tired of having Bengals conversations that aren’t about wins and losses? I am. I get asked about perceptions, mike brown, arrests, character all the time. This has been a good off season” and if you don’t answer yes to this you are not a Bengals fan. This may be a bigger question than this thread… but I’ll ask anyway. Does this mean that you feel that the perception, mike brown, arrests and character are all blown out of proportion. Obviously 3 of these topics get WAY more play than they desreve but as an outsider/fan, the one that I can’t gauge is Mike Brown.
My personal feelings are that Mike (and Katie) is plenty competent BUT their management goals may be VERY different from others. Specifally, they want to win, probably understand how to but also need to turn a profit. They are not Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, or Wayne Heuzaga(sp.) This topic may be too hot, but I’ll bet most of us readers would LOVE to hear your opinion on this.

Sean Whitford

May 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 am

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JT – What happens if the Bengals suspend Chad (ala Keyshown Johnson in Tampa)? What would be the league and financial ramifications of that. By asking this, I dont mean right now…I mean if he does anything detrimental to the team during the season. BTW, I love Chad and wish that this could be repaired. Hes a great talent and this team is definitely better with him than without him. I also feel that way about you, JT, too!

JT

May 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 am

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I will still be helping the team, but mainly off the field. Chad hasnt done anything wrong yet so they cant suspend him. I think it will work out, but I don’t like the way either side is handling it. Just bad for the Bengals brand.

JT

May 22nd, 2009 at 8:37 am

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No they are serious questions. I like Mike Brown and the organization. I’m still very close to those guys. I just had Marvin to my house two weeks ago. I’m talking about business. The Bengals are a business. Public relations are key to any business. Don’t let anyone ruin your brand. I would tell every player not to mention Chad. I would tell Carson not to either. Or I would put an end to it and either bring Chad back or trade him. Keeping it going is bad for business. People around the league shake their heads at this.

Brian

May 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 am

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Hey JT, how about a switch to a more positive topic? Chick Ludwig did his annual break out player list for the team. He mentioned Whit, Benson, and Henry as likely candidates, but he has Leon Hall as a guy who will light it up this year and have a shot at the Pro Bowl. What do you think about that? Who are you looking at to have a breakout year? I am guessing Odom. I have followed him since his days at Bama. I wish the Bengals would have drafted him in 2004 when he fell to the late second round. I pick him because of the potential he showed his last year in TN, and the fact that he seems to have added about 25lbs of muscle. He looks more like a DE now than a power foward in basketball.

Speaking of TN, you seem to focus a lot of your thoughts on the Bengals. It seems you consider yourself more a Bengal than a Titan. You had good years with both teams. Do you still feel you have ties to the Titans or are you pretty much a Bengal?

Victor

May 22nd, 2009 at 10:46 am

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It’s amazing that none of the reporters asked Carson a very basic question about Chad, “Have you personally attempted to call/contact Chad?”. Carson was incorrect when he stated that ‘no one has heard from Chad’. Marvin Lewis has often stated that he has been in regular contact with Chad and their conversations are private and personal. There are more subjective statements about Chad’s CURRENT mental state of mind. Truthfully, until C85 makes a public statement, I will continue to take him on his word. His last stated objective was to be very quiet, stay out of the media during the off-season and train to be the best receiver in the NFL. ‘Hard Knocks’ should be very entertaining.

Ron E

May 22nd, 2009 at 10:55 am

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I don’t think Chad likes Mike Sheppard, the WR coach. He seemed to like Hue Jackson, and likes Charles Collins. He’s working out with Collins now, and I have to say that if he feels that that is what’s best for him, then he’s free to think that and do that. Now, I don’t think it’s just that, since Chad should be talking to the coaches and guys to get the scoop on the plays, etc. Another way to make Chad happy is to bring in another assistant, like they did with Collins. I think I read Collins has another coaching job so he won’t be back with the Bengals. It is important for Chad to be here, but it may be good for the other guys that he’s not. I’d love for Chad to be back, play well, and everyone be happy, but I’m also excited about what this team can do without Chad. If Chad is bad for the team chemistry, then I’d rather give the roster spot to a special teams ace.

Ron E

May 22nd, 2009 at 11:18 am

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If Chad is traded or released, what kind of cap hit would the Bengals take? Teams that still need WR’s are the Bucs, Jaguars, Jets, and Ravens. Since a trade didn’t happen durring the Draft, I’m not sure one will. If it comes down to it, trade Chad to a team for a 7th, just to keep him from going to the Ravens.

BG

May 22nd, 2009 at 11:29 am

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This is interesting stuff – thanks for sharing your perspective JT… and thanks for sticking with the Bengals

Patmo

May 22nd, 2009 at 11:51 am

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JT,
How does it feel not attending OTA’s ? Are you suffering from withdtawal ?

Billy

May 22nd, 2009 at 12:16 pm

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i am late to the dance on both the Carson/Chad and Andre Smith brouhahas. i think most things have been said already above on those topics. i just wanted to add my $0.02 and state that a lot of the optimism i had from this offseason has been erased. Fool me once….shame on you, fool me eighteen times in nineteen years….ugh.

thank goodness Marvin and Zimmer are still in the fold, that gives me some hope.

JT

May 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm

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Not yet :) I was in my office the other day and I saw the guys practicing at PBS. I will go over there to watch one next week to see it up close. Some of the guys talk to me afterwards and I definately don’t miss the coaches yelling:)

JT

May 22nd, 2009 at 1:43 pm

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I still love the Titans. I played in Cincy longer so I would say I’m a Bengal, but I still have Titans in my blood. A good mix to have. Plus I live in Cincy so I know a little more about the team. I still see some of the Titan guys when I’m in vegas. I ran into LB Keith Bullock and DE Jevon Kearse a few months ago and we still hang out. I talk to some front office folks down there still so I keep up.

As far as breakout players, I would put guys like Andre Caldwell and the new punter as my guys to have big years and shock people. I like Caldwell. I tink they should have just went with him instead of signing Coles. Andre is younger, faster and healthier. But…thats my opinion :) The new punter will have to have a great year. Cutting Kyle Larson was bold. He had a bad season, but so did everyone else. So I think this kid need so play well to justify the move, and from what I hear, he is pretty good. The guys that Chick named are already pretty good. Chris Henry breaking out? He already had good seasons. He just needs to be more mature and handle being good all the time. Whit is already good and Benson broke out last year right?? Tell Chick to think outside the box!!! :) jk

Mike

May 22nd, 2009 at 6:36 pm

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jt
i agree with you on caldwell i’m sure he’ll get his chance. if i’m not mistaken doesn’t coles have injury tendancies? hopefully nothing like that happens but i believe he’ll get his chance to shine. i also think collins will do something this year and get himself back in the lineup. somewhere along the line. also pat sims. i like him and i’m hoping he has a big year

Ron E

May 25th, 2009 at 8:36 am

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You never know with Coles, a lot of big WR acquisitions are busts, but Coles has played well with the Jets and Redskins, and has not really had a QB like Carson or other WR talent like the Bengals have. The OL will have some consistency issues starting out, and the Bengals will need to establish a running game and when passing, do a lot of quick passes. I see Coles as a good fit to do a lot of routes like Antonio Chatman did last year.

I think a big thing Coles brings to this team is a veteran influence and a different attitude for the WRs. They lost T.J. and Chad’s not around to help these young guys out. Bringing Coles in might just help Henry, Caldwell, and Simpson. If these guys are all playing really well, it will be interesting to see how Chad handles things when he gets here.

Ken

May 27th, 2009 at 10:57 am

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I for one, am glad Carson is calling Chad out. Chad Johnson’s actions show he is a selfish ballplayer and is all about himself. Dave Lapham said recently that he believes the majority of players on this team would “drive him to the airport” in an effort to get Chad off this team. Can’t we make that happen, already?

Chad Johnson really is a non-issue for this team. As Carson said, there are some guys who want his spot and are willing to bust their butts to get it. I say move forward with the guys who want to be here, and let the other guy sit home and pout because he isn’t getting his way. You simply have to move on. Period. At this point, I don’t want Chad on the field or in the locker rooom.

Marvin

May 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am

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The Bungals aren’t a playoff organization with or without Carson and Chad liking each other so who cares……It all starts with how the team is run and we all know the answer to that…..Read the recent book about Paul Brown and it all makes sense and I’d even say Karma is playing out on this pathetic franchise……Besides Palmer proved he was no leader when he was a rookie and said he was okay backing up Kitna for a year. A true leader would have fought tooth and nail to win that spot on day one and at the very minimum would have said he wanted to play.

Jim

May 27th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

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I am also glad Carson is not holding back now. Chad, (with his lack of attendance to the OTA’s) has been holding Carson and the Bengals back for quite some time IMO.
I like what I saw in the offseason, and am looking forward to a bounce back from last years train-wreck. New to the Blog (via 1530) and will be checking in on JT. and lastly, Thanks JT for being a breath of fresh air with your professionalism on and off the field.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do! Make sure you keep up with the Blogging! Love it!

john adams

May 27th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

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I’m no fan of Chad’s. I’ve wanted him gone since ’05 and it’s a mystery to me that he is still on the team. I wish they could of traded him before the draft. But most other teams do not want him and the headaches that he could bring to their franchise! If he does show up for the main camp in July and tries to give Carson a bad time……it would make my year if Carson bounced him off the wall!! Bottom line, they have to pay him but they don’t have to let him on the field or in the locker room! Tampa Bay/John Gruden as coach did that to Keyshon Johnson, isn’t that amazing, they’re cousins, to be a jerk must be in their bloodline!

Mark

May 27th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

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What’ the big deal. I don’t see chad starting even if he was a team player. He is not the Chad of 3 years ago. That chad is gone forever. And anyone who wants to give this aging immature reciever a ton of money in a new contract is certifiably insane.

Bengals Nut

May 27th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

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Hey John,

Thought you were cool…but to purposely stir stuff up is classless. Carson is the leader, he isn’t stirring anything up by talking about a player who refuses to come and practice. Also, you aren’t even on the team and they signed your replacement in Tank Johnson already, so why don’t you just move on a quit trying to gravy train your way into another career by creating a problem that doesn’t exist.

JT

May 27th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

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Ok, sorry for being classless :) I’m glad you did think I was cool at one point. I think your name is even cooler though, “Bengals Nut”. Yes Carson is the leader of the team. No one is questioning that “Bengals Nut”. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I said that Carson “stated the obvious, and I went on to say at the end of the post that he did nothing wrong.” Yes the Bengals have signed Tank Johnson, “Bengals Nut”. But he isn’t my replacement, “Bengals Nut”. Pat Sims is my replacement, “Bengals Nut”. And I helped Pat Sims replace me, “Bengals Nut”. So be happy I let him start 7 games last year, now he knows what it will take to be a starter in the NFL, “Bengals Nut”. And I’m not gravy training into another career, “Bengals Nut”. Just calling it how I see it, “Bengals Nut”. There you go “Bengals Nut”, you got me to respond. Hope that helps.

Jim

June 1st, 2009 at 8:02 pm

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JT
You talk about the emotions getting the best of Carson when asked about Chad. Dont you think the fans are craving some emotion from the franchise player?
From my point of view, the fans are tired of Chad’s act..(Sounds like the locker room is too) I believe we as fans have put up with his act in the past because he put up numbers and made plays….I cant remember the last crucial catch Chad made…(Carolina, a few years ago????) As the way I see it… the “Future HOF” jacket is not even neighborhood, let alone his closet… Prove me wrong MR. Ochocinco!!!
What do you think JT? Am I wrong? “Bengals NUT….Bengals NUT..Bengals NUT!!! ha-ha!!!!

NFL Vegas Odds

September 3rd, 2009 at 2:01 pm

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Anyone who changes their name to match their jersey number in Spanish isn’t worth as much as he thinks he is.

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  • jonathan ivey: I think Quan Cosby and Jerome Simpson will both win the last two WR spots. With Chad and T. O. getting up in age it would be nice to see our younger r
  • Scott A: @jonathan ivey - I agree. I truly hope Quan makes the team, but it looks like Simpson is finally growing into a professional - heck I can even say I'
  • jonathan ivey: I think Jerome Simpson might benefit the most from AB being released. I think he now has a much stronger chance of making the team. Hopefully he can g
  • Matt: They need to clean house in that department. I am not sure how big a team's medical staff is but it can't be that big. I am a medical professional a
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